Same as on our last update, we have notified once again the Ampleforth team to proceed with some communications on this forum, insisting on the seriousness of the matter. Unfortunately, it is up to them on the timing on when this happens.
As we commented before, we have not implemented the aAMPL custom aToken smart contract, the Ampleforth team did, so it is out of our expertise to locate the root of the problem. And so our expectations on them leading this effort.
However, we can understand the frustration on your side, so will try to give an overview of our understanding in what is happening, following your points:
Specific challenges. The initial challenge is understanding how much growth of aAMPL is âvirtualâ (not real), in order to determine how much AMPL underlying should be supplied for withdrawals. This is not completely trivial, and depends completely on doing an historical analysis, combined with total understanding of the aAMPL custom implementation. This is supposed to be done by the Ampleforth team, and again, we have requested them to provide an update to this community asap.
Once that is clear, there will probably be an extra step to âsettleâ aAMPL accounting, requiring an upgrade of the Aave pool and/or aAMPL. We could help on this, giving that belongs to the Aave protocol side, outside of the aAMPL custom implementation.
Progress made. From the risk providers side of the DAO, this proposal will be submitted soon to update the interest rate of AMPL, factually disabling the âvirtualâ growth, as it doesnât make sense to keep it.
Regarding extra progress, it boils down to point 1) and the Ampleforth team.
Action plan (changing order of items). An reasonable strategy in this case is the following:
Understand which is a reasonable current claimable rights of aAMPL, discounting the âvirtualâ (non-real).
Once claimable rights are clear, prepare a proposal to deposit that liquidity to allow withdrawals, to be decided by the community, but for example by using AMPL previously claimed by the Aave Collector combined with extra AMPL from the Ampleforth ecosystem.
Potentially in parallel with 2), settle the accounting of aAMPL, for it to reflect the claims.
Estimated timelines. Timelines are still uncertain until there is an update from the Ampleforth team, but again, we have highlighted with them the importance and seriousness of the matter.
Hi all,
This is Naguib from the Ampleforth team and one of the contributors to aAMPL contract we appreciate your patience and understand your concern with the timeline. We have been coordinating with Chaos labs and Gauntlet to get to an effective resolution. The challenge of diagnosing the source of the issue comes from having parts across AAVE and AMPL and existing analysis tools work for each separately. We expect to have updates with next steps by the end of next week.
Thank you for the update, BGDLabs. Itâs reassuring to know that the issue is being taken seriously and that there is a collaborative effort between the Ampleforth team, risk providers, and Aave. I understand the complexity of the situation and appreciate the emphasis on keeping the Aave community informed. Your commitment to transparency and communication in this challenging situation is much appreciated.
Thank you, Naguib, for this much-awaited update. The involvement and coordination between the Ampleforth team, Chaos Labs, and Gauntlet give us confidence that a comprehensive resolution is being worked towards. The technical challenges youâve outlined make it clear why this process is complex and time-consuming. We appreciate the specific timeline for the next update, as it helps in setting our expectations and understanding the progress being made. Looking forward to the detailed update by the end of next week, and we hope for a positive and effective resolution soon.
We reaching out again to express our growing concern over the lack of updates regarding the AMPL token situation on Aave. It has now been 13 days since we were told to expect an update by the end of last week, a commitment that has unfortunately not been met.
The absence of communication not only heightens our concern but also affects our trust in the process.
We kindly request an immediate update on the situation.
Be assured that your concerns are being taken seriously, and every effort is being made to address the situation appropriately.
We understand the importance of transparency and communication and will communicate more moving forward. Our team, alongside the BGD team, are working to find a resolution.
We appreciate your patience and support
Thank you for your recent communication. While the acknowledgment of our concerns is appreciated, itâs imperative to address the unmet expectations set by previous communications. Specifically, the promise made for an update with next steps by the end of last week, as mentioned in your earlier message, was not fulfilled in the manner expected. The latest update, unfortunately, lacks the detailed progress report and actionable steps we were led to anticipate.
As stakeholders, weâre left in a precarious position without a clear understanding of the problemâs specifics, what measures are being undertaken to resolve it, or any indicative timelines for when these issues might be resolved. This ongoing uncertainty severely impacts our ability to make informed decisions regarding our investments in AMPL.
Given the circumstances, I respectfully urge for:
Immediate, Detailed Update: An exhaustive summary of the issue at hand, including technical details, challenges faced, and progress made since the initial acknowledgment in December 2023. This update should also clarify any discrepancies between previous promises and the current state of affairs.
Clear Action Plan with Timelines: A transparent and specific action plan, including any provisional timelines for resolution. While we understand the complexity of these issues may preclude exact dates, a range of expectations would be invaluable for setting realistic outlooks.
Commitment to Regular, Specific Updates: A pledge to provide regular updates that go beyond general assurances, detailing actual milestones achieved, any shifts in strategy, and adjustments to expected timelines.
Direct Engagement with Community Concerns: A mechanism for addressing community questions and concerns in a structured manner, such as a dedicated forum thread or scheduled Q&A sessions, to ensure direct and transparent communication.
The gap between the communityâs expectations based on your commitments and the subsequent communications received has underscored the need for a recalibration of how updates and information are shared. We seek not just reassurances of effort but tangible evidence of progress and a clear path forward.
The communityâs patience and understanding thus far should be met with a reciprocal commitment to transparency, urgency, and detailed communication. We look forward to a response that aligns with the seriousness of the situation and provides the clarity and specifics that have been lacking.
Thank you for your attention to these matters. We await a prompt and detailed update that addresses these critical concerns.
By the way, its not only AMPL, but both AMPL and AAVE responsibility. Even if AMPL came with their code, AAVE had to check it for possible errors and mistakes.
If all of this information was provided to you right now, would it really help move things any faster? It sounds like micromanagement from someone who isnât paying their salary.
I understand your frustration from a stakeholder point of view, but just have to be realistic - only so many dev cycles to investigate + resolve the issue and then on top of that satisfy all those demands.
If you want updates its probably best to come to ampleforths office hours every week. They just addressed this in the latest one .
They already changed smth, I mentioned that last rebase of aAMPL was only ~0.1%, and AMPL rebased for 0.97%. Its happened for at least few days already. Strange that they dont say to us, what exactly they done, so its like this now. The most important thing now, when they will add aAMPL so depositors can at last withdraw their tokens
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Itâs important to clarify that seeking updates on the resolution of AMPL issues within Aave isnât about micromanaging the development team or overlooking the complexity of their work. As investors, our primary concern is the transparency and accountability of the platforms where our investments reside, not the intricacies of their operational management.
Expecting regular updates on a platform where we are directly affected is reasonable, especially given the impact on our ability to make informed decisions about our investments. Itâs not about demanding instantaneous solutions or underestimating the challenges faced by the developers. Rather, itâs about ensuring that the communication lines remain open and accessible within the specific ecosystem where the issue exists.
Furthermore, the responsibility to seek out information should not solely be on the stakeholders. While Ampleforthâs office hours may offer valuable insights, stakeholders in Aave have a legitimate expectation to receive updates directly within the Aave ecosystem, where their investments are impacted. We shouldnât have to navigate outside our primary platform to stay informed about critical issues affecting our assets.
Ensuring that all invested parties are informed is fundamental to maintaining confidence in both Ampleforth and Aaveâs handling of this issue.
Dear Naquib and bgd team,
We are again about 10 days after our last contact. It is apparently very complex and we have been waiting since December 2023 and still know nothing.
We have asked again the Ampleforth team to do an update for the community, as we agree that frequent communication pretty mandatory.
We are aware they have performed some analysis in order to understand how much is the legitimate growth of the aAMPL claims as a function of borrowings and rebases, so waiting also to see the full details of it. This should be used to propose a plan as soon as possible to allow withdrawals.
And as clarification following what we already said before, we are not leading this effort, as we didnât implement the custom AMPL code, so it doesnât really depend on us the timing of all communications.
And we are another week without any form of communication that is useful to us. We are told that they are working on it, but nothing else! Isnât it time real action was taken! There are a lot of people who have money in this, but the liquidity to withdraw anything is zero.We are waiting now for almost three months.
Iâm not the only one who is slowly losing patience and starting to look like a Ponzi fraud
To make a long story short. come up with concrete answers and a solution so that those who want can withdraw their money,
Iâm posting to provide an outline of proposed steps to address the inability to withdraw aAMPL balances.
To recap the source of the issue: More interest was credited to depositors than was charged from borrowers. This discrepancy has led to situations where some depositors were able to withdraw more than what should have been possible under normal circumstances. As a direct consequence, weâre now facing a liquidity shortfall, preventing current depositors from withdrawing their funds.
To address this, we will run a detailed simulation to accurately determine how much each of the current depositors should be eligible to withdraw, considering the overwithdrawals that have occurred.
Identifying the root cause of this discrepancy has been challenging. Weâre trying to ascertain whether it stems from the very high interest rates and the inherent interest calculation methodology on the AAVE platform or if itâs due to a logical error in the custom aAMPL implementation. The principal difficulty lies in the timing/frequency of accounting updates, which significantly influences the final interest credit and charges when interest rates are very high, which is the case with AMPL when utilization is above 90%. This issue complicates our efforts to differentiate between acceptable approximations and the accumulation of undesired errors.
While the effort to fully detangle that will proceed. Our immediate priority is to formulate a plan that enables current users to withdraw their deposits.
The AMPL reserve which would be expected to cover such issues was withdrawn and exchanged for USDC as per the proposal here.
the amount was around 283,500 AMPL at the time which is ~47250 WAMPL
We estimate the upper bound of true balances available for withdrawal to be around 65800 WAMPLs or 715335 AMPLs (based on the current supply on March 9, 2024). This upper bound will be refined following a comprehensive simulation to ascertain the accurate balances.
using WAMPL values here to abstract AMPL supply changes, 100K WAMPL is 1% of AMPL total supply
We propose:
Swapping 80-100% from AAVE Treasury/Collectorâs to AMPL to be used for withdrawals. if that turned out to be more than the needed amount it can be swapped back. The proposal to do the swap in an earlier step from creating the withdrawal mechanism is to swap AMPLs at the current market price to protect from increase in AMPL Market Cap.
Deposit that amount in a contract for depositors to claim the eligible withdrawals.(Contract wrapper holder will need special handling for original holders to able to withdraw based on their logic)
We estimate to publish the adjusted balances by March 22nd. Also acknowledging that the discussion here will reshape the proposals above.
Your understanding is greatly appreciated as we work to resolve the issue.
Thank you for the update. While I appreciate the complexity of resolving this issue, itâs concerning that weâve gone three months without a detailed update. The commitment to publish adjusted balances by March 22nd is noted. However, itâs crucial that this update not only includes a detailed breakdown to help us understand changes to our balances for self-verification but also addresses the potential for compensation in cases where losses have been incurred due to inaccurately projected interest rates leading to misleading balances. Timely and transparent communication remains vital, especially when it involves our ability to access our funds. I hope for more frequent updates moving forward and a swift resolution to enable withdrawals as promised by that date, along with fair compensation for any discrepancies.