ARC: Aave Market Launch on Harmony

Governance
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I am a recent adopter of Harmony for day to day transactions as ethereum and other protocols have a high barrier. Their dedication for interoperability leads to other avenues that might benefit Aave as well (BTC bridge, davinci NFT gallery, etc). The harmony team has already made progress with sushiswap with ever increasing TVL.

Full disclosure I am an ardent user of Aave, own Aave, and the possibility to improve access to a low transaction fee, highly scalable actively running system is huge for me. It allows me to better transact and hopefully improve my real life business.

I hope Aave team will consider harmony with due research.

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Reaaaally getting fishy vibes here

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With the recent success of SushiSwap launch, i think it would be mutually beneficial for this partnership. Really hope this goes through as harmony is a solid project.

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Love Harmony One. It is faster and cheaper than basically every other smart contract platform I have used.

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hey @Josef since i’m the creator of the post and also represent the harmony team, i see most of the posts are supportive with thoughtful points - talking about sushi’s deployment on harmony or our bridge with ethereum. i believe our community picked up on the proposal and our community has 350,000 people so some of them are bound to jump into the conversation. i’ve tweeted about the original proposal but other than that, these are real folks who are picking this up. my tweet got almost 500 likes, so it’s fairly public now.

that’s one of the original goals of this proposal. it is to bring net new users to aave who may be priced out of ethereum ecosystem. we want people to be able to borrow and lend as little as $10-100 dollars to start. think about how many users in the world we can engage. let’s bring the next millions of users into defi.

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Sounds like a good proposal to me. The low cost and fast speed of Harmony could definitely provide utility for AAVE. The Harmony team also seems well organized and building a lot fast, which could in turn benefit AAVE as well. Things seem to be going well with Sushi on Harmony as well, so I don’t see any reasons why it could not benefit AAVE.

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Regarding the recent Polynetwork hack I am asking myself are there any secutiry related issues you had in the past with bridging assets. As a Aave holder since 2017 (Lend) I want to make sure that the protocol will not suffer any damage. It hasn’t yet but any new implementation is risky and has to be evaluated Correctly. Do you have any information regarding that @li-jiang
Thank you in advance

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Same, I don’t know much about Harmony, but I know brigading when I see it.

I’d like to suggest two points of discussion. I don’t have any issue with Harmony One, but we need to evaluate the risks and implications for the Aave protocol as opposed to just shilling Harmony’s benefits.

My first suggested point of discussion, I agree with @EzR3aL above, as an Aave holder since the LEND days, security seem to be the most obvious risk; as I understand it’s EVM compatible but that doesn’t necessarily entail it’s as secure as ETH.

Second point, if Aave is to launch on Harmony, every slightly functional blockchain will be encouraged to offer LM incentives to try to get Aave to launch on their blockchain. Where do we set the limit on which blockchains Aave launches on? What should this decision process look like?

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This is a great proposal and I support it completely. This is great for Aave.

EDIT : I’m attaching a screenshot of my harmony metamask account to show that I’m not brigading and that I’m an actual user of harmony. (I considered posting my wallet address, but I prefer to stay anonymous and I don’t want people to think I’m seeking for money transfers or anything)

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The hack on Polynetwork was due to flawfull coding on Polynetworks side. I‘ve read a more easy-to-understand reasoning behind the hack and polynetwork didnt see the flawed coding.
Due to the fact that harmony is a L1, this sort of mistake cant happen.

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Thanks for your questions. I am the architect and engineer working on https://bridge.harmony.one/. There has been no security issues wrt bridged assets. We had a full audit done by PeckShield (Security Audit - Harmony) before the launch (oct 2020). Since the launch, 10+ months, we had no issues and the bridge has over $90+ million tvl. Will be happy to provide further details if required.

With regards to harmony network itself, 4 shards secured by 1000 validating nodes. 800 out of 1000 validating slots are run by the community. As per Harmony – Open Consensus for 10B, you can see 126 unique validators securing the network (with similar decentralization of each shard Harmony – Open Consensus for 10B). Overall, the network is secured by 4,615,419,443 staked ONE tokens, worth over $460+ million. Note that, harmony network has been up from Jun 2019 (with open staking from May 2020), had multiple audits with no security breach. Again, I will be very happy to provide further details and help you to evaluate.

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@Gilligan @EzR3aL here you go :slight_smile:

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even though it’s not your fault and you didn’t intend, he’s right in the sense that it’s brigading, you can tell by the headers like this before all the messages

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Folks, there’s no point in brigading, it does not help, please go easy

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I understand your point about brigading, and it’s a fair one. I came here to show support and I did realize it would get attributed to brigading but I think it’s important to share my support/testimony. I’m new to crypto (Q1 2021) and Harmony is the primary blockchain I operate in. I’ve heard and read about Aave’s DeFi reputation and I strongly desire to participate. I know Harmony’s protocol much better than I do Aave, and the Harmony team is eager to make this connection happen. Harmony was a really great catalyst and ice breaker for introducing me (and many more) into crypto and I’m not unique, as @li-jiang has stated, there are thousands of users watching, ready, and willing to jump in and participate if this were to become a reality. I can’t answer technical questions (that’s why the Harmony team is here participating in the thread after all), but I think it’s still fair and okay for someone like me to join in the conversation and cast a vote of confidence. Now that I’ve joined the Aave governance community, I’ve been looking around at it more and getting more familiar with it. So, thank you for having me!

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My experience is almost identical to this, well said!

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This could be truly amazing - the ability to Lend and compound multiple times with practically 0.00c gas fees.

This type of performance is undreamed off on the ETH network. And aside from super-cheap gas fees, Harmony’s super-fact transaction speeds really outshine Polygon (which is basically an ETH 2 layer).

Clean fresh Aave dApp on a clean, fresah native platform like Harmony - a win-win for us all.

Typical HARMONY transaction on ViperSwap:
fee

Typical ETHEREUM transaction on UniSwap:
ETH

Go Figure !

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hey @state been following you on twitter so nice to meet you in this forum.

yes we told our community when we initially posted this to not brigade. and our community managers are all aware and reminding people not to do that.

we are here to answer any substantive questions as well about harmony, our team, our history and story. ask us anything :)

p.s.

this is our team. we are a bunch of friendly and excited dreamers. when we get together for team lunch, we get even more excited…maybe this is where our community gets their enthusiasm from: https://twitter.com/lijiang2087/status/1425725963115978757?s=20

and this is me at raave during ethcc week. nice to virtually meet you and cheers!

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One can like Harmony more or less, and many people here can surely bring to the table very solid and compelling arguments on why Harmony is or is not a suitable chain for hosting an instance of Aave.

But let me be honest with you, downplaying Ethereum because of gas prices does not help at all in getting your point across. Ethereum is far from perfect, but for pretty much everyone in this ecosystem, it feels like home. Without the hard work from Ethereum core developers, and the size, enthusiasm and network effects of its community, Aave would not exist — and Harmony neither. They deserve all our respect.

Moreover, reflecting on the subtext of the gas price argument, let’s be serious about it. Gas price is just driven up by users competing for block space. There is no magic involved. For any chain offering lower gas prices, that is possible either because there is spare block space (low demand for transacting) or because block space limits were raised (which over time is not sustainable).

It is that simple. The only thing that breaks that logic is sharding. A properly designed sharding mechanism can (but not necesarily does) soften the relation between demand for transacting and gas cost. But it never breaks that relation though. A chain with, let’s say 20 shards, can scale —at best― by 20x, although in many cases, that will be achieved only by trading-off on the decentralization side (that is, a low count of independent replicas of each shard’s own state).

I am not trying to say however that Ethereum is a silver bullet and that everyone should use Ethereum for everything. That is nonsense.

Blockchains are here to provide security, finality and censorship resistance. And in terms of those parameters, there is no “one size fits all”. If gas prices seem too high for some particular user, application or use case, it means that by using Ethereum, they are paying for a degree of security they do not really need or want. If one’s security and decentralization requirements are not that high, there are plenty of other options.

As of today, in my opinion, Ethereum is the only smart contract network with a robustness proven enough to support Aave’s $15bn TVL. Whether there will be any other platform in the future that is on par or even outgrows Ethereum, that I do not know. Happy to change my mind when the day comes. But up until then, Aave belongs in Ethereum and we all should respect, support and celebrate Ethereum.

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hey @ASDPC we are big fans of ethereum as well!

in fact, i went to see vitalik speak in san francisco before the ethereum ico in march 2014, but that’s a story for another day.

harmony’s core goal from our early days was to put the best research into production. we were inspired by ethereum 2.0’s concepts of sharding and proof of stake and we launched our mainnet with those features in june 2019.

you point out security, finality and censorship resistance. we’ve also been working on the trilemma of decentralization, scalability, and security. the relationship and tradeoffs will always exist, what we’ve done is to expand the triangle through engineering. it was a lot of hard work and time, but we have 115+ external validators running the network and we’ve had 90 million mainnet transactions over 2 years. and now every day there are 1-1.5m transactions on our mainnet. we want to demonstrate that we are secure, decentralized and scalable not just by posting on this forum but by letting our mainnet prove it in practice.

of course aave belongs on ethereum! we don’t think any of the major ethereum defi protocols should “leave” ethereum. we just believe that the world is quickly becoming multi-chain and our goal is to support the next era of projects scaling to multiple chains. sushi launched on harmony last month and we’ve seen over $80m tvl and many new users coming in.

we are here to be a friendly scaling solution. and i truly want people in the world with even $10 to their name today be able to impacted by the power of decentralized and permissionless finance.

happy to chat more and answer any other questions.

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Flipping through form posts and this seems interesting. Mostly a reader, don’t think I’ve actually posted before but this is getting more theoretical & high level “principled” so fun to dive in!

Given everything you’ve sad, what are your thoughts on the AAVE Matic deployment? IIRC that deployment had 8B-9B TVL before the mini bear market over the past couple of months. I don’t recall it being hacked or having any security issues. Matics “thing” is calibrating their chain so gas fees are lower. Sort of analogous to the chain at issue here

Any thoughts on that Matic deployment of AAVE?

Separately - how does this analysis play into the presentation about cross-chain bridges for governance? Do you have thoughts on that work to focus on multi-chain deployment and multichain-governance? Am I reading you right that you “generally” think that this work is a bad idea?

https://twitter.com/StaniKulechov/status/1418179733133664256?s=20