Gasless Voting on Aave

Hello everyone,

Today I would like to talk about gasless Voting on Aave.

Why?
Because the voting system is extremely important and relevant to the whole DAO we need more people to be involved in votings. The problem is that probably most small holders won’t vote because of high gas fees on chain.
That’s why I would like to recommend and take a look at Bancors try with gasless votings.
See here full explanation: UPDATED: Gasless Voting via Snapshot - BIP Discussion - Bancor Governance Forum

Implementing something similar would probably get us more votes for pending AIPs. And the more people are voting the more realistic the votes can and will be. As not a few single whales are gonna decide which way Aave should go.

What do you think?

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I pretty much agree with trying to find a good solution for gasless voting. Governance participation was already an issue when the gas costs were acceptable, but now it’s a burden for token holders that is not sustainable long term. With that said, some teams already tried to create gasless governance in the past, with little to no success. The bancor attempt seems interesting and for sure something to keep an eye on.

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That’s it. It’s hard to get people on voting if they aren’t wealthy enough. It’s more of a privilege right now than the voice of holder.

And yes I fully agree that there has to be a good solution. Unfortunately I’m not a dev and cannot say pretty much how this has to look like. But maybe someone else can? Like maybe @Zer0dot?

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I can :slight_smile:
The issue with gasless voting is that requires some level of trust. Essentially you can create an offchain system (like the one of snapshot) that collects the voters preference through message signing instead of submitting transactions, which does not cost anything. The issue comes when you try to submit the result onchain, because there is no guarantee that the centralized party will submit the result correctly (either because of malicious behavior or bugs). Due to that, some systems in the past tried to use a dispute mechanism on proposals submission, so that if there is a malicious attempt to submit tampered results onchain the vote can be invalidated. But no one really succeeded until now, i will need to research the bancor attempt a bit more

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Ah now I get the problem. Yes sure… That’s a big thing of course. We’ll Im going to take a look at Bancor attempt too. Maybe some ideas will come up.
Thanks for your Input @Emilio

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Is there a way to pay the gas and get reimbursed after you participated in governance? It sounds to me it will solve the gas price issue for newcomers and will encourage activity

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Maybe another could be to do a voting, pay the gas fees and get aave as an Airdrop as a reward that you participated. This could be a possible solution.

i think this is a great idea and it makes a lot of sense. Luckily GnosisDao has come up with a potential solution for gas burdened voters. SafeSnap is a tool for combining off-chain voting with on-chain execution, without compromising decentralization.

more info here: https://blog.gnosis.pm/introducing-safesnap-the-first-in-a-decentralized-governance-tool-suite-for-the-gnosis-safe-ea67eb95c34f

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anyone else like this idea, as it kinda permeates throughout the student body, majority wise it makes sense too. Simply put, i would compare it to the fairest, non-greedy, make more,then pay a little more. Just the P2P concept itself is one of the basic principles ,and main reasons why i am here. I dont know about y’all,but not paying out money each and everytime i want to create wealth for myself? When the inputters of a few buttons on a keyboard make more than any 50 of us majority wise, anyhow. Another good reason? non-corporate officers, board members, lobbyists, all y’all go away,you arent welcome, nor needed, heck, unwanted period! You think?

Fully agree, may be to vote with the same smartcontracts but on a Ethereum Testnet could be a solution

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While we are talking about better voting system on Aave, let me up this post Use aAAVE to participate to governance

I think that should be a priority from the governance perspective and probably the most efficient cost/reward solution to get more people involved in governance process (12% of AAVE tokens are aAAVE fyi).

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@Emilio did you have time to check out Bancors attempt for gasless Voting?

Could we possibly move voting to the Polygon network? It’d be nearly free there without the snapshot risk?

Also just to tie this post in from November :

~$100 in gas to vote really disincentivizes community participation.

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I support everything in favor of improving the current voting system.

I think the current voting system gives too much power to addresses with big voting power which demotivates average people to vote. As a result this decreases decentralization.

The main issue is, as stated in this thread, gas fees. I think being able to vote from Polygon netowrk would be a nice solution fot this if possible.

Second issue is that in my opinion average token holders don’t get informed enough about AAVE ecosystem and might see voting as a chore. My suggestion is adding a small incentive funded from the AAVE reserve on top of the first proposition to incentivize voting. I don’t think it should be something large, for example a return of 0.01% of the amount used to vote is enough to get people interested.

This is an awesome idea. Would kill the fees, but be secure. Maybe a good way to go. Thanks for that!

Governance and security are strictly correlated. While i believe the polygon network to be secure, it’s objectively and comparatively less secure than Ethereum (probably only Bitcoin is as secure as Ethereum). For this reason, even though voting is still very expensive, i would be reluctant in moving the governance to anything that is not ethereum itself. Hopefully L2 solutions will come up soon to ease the load on the ethereum network, and given the fact that they inherit the ethereum security, maybe there will be good chance to move the governance to one of these networks

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That’s a fair point. Polygon isn’t as safe as Ethereum. Did the bancor gasless voting thing turn out well?

Afaik they didn’t release anything to submit the actual proposal onchain (that is the most important part of the process)

I agree. I have not voted a single time because of GAS fees. Can voting be implemented on the Polygon chain?

Honest reply. I only vote on ETH if it is related to a airdrop because of the fees. I think the democracy happens in these forums and the vote is just a formality. When the popular opinion is behind the proposal it is put forward and because of the high fees only some vote.

If voting is gasless and creating propsals is cheap the quarum can get congested with non-sensical or bad propositions. This is happening in snapshot voting attleast.